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Spanking
Correspondence
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To: dumont@fdu.edu
Subject: Get off it!!!
Would you people please stop telling the American people how to raise our children!! We are tired of being told the same old lies. The
fact is that corporal punishment is a necessity in our children's lives--especially
today. Are you blind? Can't you see the ventful rage and anger our children
are displaying daily? Something has gone terribly wrong over the past
thirty years. And it's thanks to people like you and the infamous Dr. Spock.
Just get off our backs. We know how to raise children. Corporal punishment brings positive effects, because it shows children that there is such a thing as pain. And we ask why our children have no conscience? Corporal punishment is being recognized again, because people are tired of nothing going right. People are tired of turning on the news to hear
about school shootings, and bomb threats galore. Brace yourself. What
works and what should not have been taken away in the first place is coming back, and we will be a better people for it.
Chris
Kentucky
Dear Chris
Thank you for your comments.
A couple of points:
I am not blind, although a bit myopic. Maybe that is why I do not see the
"ventful rage and anger" our children display. Actually, I work
with quite a few young people and have totally missed this in them. Must
be the water?
Thank you so much for placing me in the same category as Dr. Spock. Much
better pairing than some I have been coupled with before.
I think I would agree that corporal punishment shows that there is such a thing
as pain, but I am a bit in the dark - that myopia gain? - as to how that
translates into "positive effects" and just what these positive effect
are?
Your suggestion that I "get off" your and others backs is a good one.
I must admit I didn't know I was on them. I am light, but I can see
that if I were on your back it might cause some pain - but according to you that
would result in a positive effect.
Could you tell me how I got on your back. I don't think I know you, and I
think that if we had met I would remember.
Have a nice day.
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Subject: Smart remarks
You really proved yourself to be a professional doctor, my friend. You are on our backs by constantly charging the people of
America with abuse when they are simply trying to raise their children in a way that they were
raised and their parents were raised, and people for thousands of years were raised--by spanking. It seems to me that you gave no real reason for being anti-corporal punishment. You just danced around the issue with your jokes. And
if you were literally "on my back," and did cause me pain, it would not
bring positive effects. I'm not saying pain for no reason causes positive
effects. I am simply saying that when a child does something wrong, a good old fashioned whipping is the answer. As for your comment about missing the rage in our youth, have you ever heard of Columbine,
Santee, Jonesboro , Paducah
, drug abuse, gangs, and premarital sex? Or have you missed all that too? Corporal
punishment is a good thing. So, Get Off It!
Have a nice day:)
Chris in Kentucky
Chris
Again I would ask "How am I on your back?" The idea that a child
just needs a "good old fashion whipping" strikes me as a bit strong.
Could you show me some convincing research that will help me become more
informed. I would love to see the work that says a "good
whipping" has positive, long lasting, effects.
I have "real reason" to be anti-corporal punishment. Mainly it
is my readings of both sides of the issue and my strong bias toward reality.
Please, Chris, show me the money. Provide me with empirical evidence
that a good whipping works.
You mention that I am "constantly charging the people of America
with abuse when they are simply trying to raise
their children in a way that they were raised and their parents were raised, and
people for thousands of years were raised--by spanking." I have one
page on my web site devoted to this aspect and am pleased to see that it must be
having some effect.
I take it you were spanked as a child. I am sorry. There are better
ways to teach discipline.
I look forward to your sharing with me the evidence. I, like Dr. Spock,
have the ability to change. As you are probably aware, Dr. Spock
originally advocated spanking but changed his mind in the '80s. I always
like to keep an open mind - but not so much so that my brain falls out.
I look forward to hearing the evidence.
Ron
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> Subject: more remarks
Walter
Williams, an economics professor, gives strong arguments for corporal punishment. He asks if we have the guts and willpower to
control our youngsters. Or, are we going to play costly games, such as having
metal detectors at our school enterances, teacher panic alarms, and hallway
guards, and accept a jail-like atmosphere in our schools? Is that what you
want to see happen? Because it is already beginning. Until we bring
back corporal punishment it will only get worse. Mr. Williams also points out
that as a child, when he was told to do something, he replied with "Yes sir, or
ma'am." Now, he says, an adult who tells a child to do something risks being cursed or assaulted. An internet survey at the "Mr. Poll" web site shows that a great
majority of those surveyed who were spanked do not consider themselves to be violent people, and approved of thier parents disciplining them in this manner. It also shows that a great majority of people did not think it was okay to hit others just because they were spanked. And yes, I was spanked, and am not ashamed to admit it. So please
don't say, "sorry." I am a better person for it. Spanking
is the only true effective discipline tool. If you want evidence, go out and find
people who were spanked, and ask them if they believe they turned out a better person for it. The people that should be ashamed are those who send their
kids to "time-out," or try to get in touch with their
"feelings." Give me a break. It is time to stop babying our children. Spare the rod, spoil the
child, sir. Best phrase in history. It's also a shame that Dr. Spock's
turn-around wasn't as widely-publicized as his mistake.
Chris in K
Chris
Thanks again for the comments.
You are making a good and strong argument for "a good old fashion
whipping." With schools in such turmoil, it may just be that corporal
punishment would be better than the metal detectors, teacher panic buttons, and
all the other things we are doing. Of course, if a good old fashion
whipping is a good thing, I say "Give it to them all." Don't hold
back.
If the effect of corporal punishment is ennobling; if it tends to make children
more disciplined and more respectful, then a good old fashion whipping develops
character, self-reliance, courage, and contempt of pain.
I assume you will agree with me and advocate the whipping of children who obey
their parents, or of pupils who violate no rule. It follows that such children
are in great danger of growing up as less disciplined, and less respectful than
those for whom we have given the lash. If whipping is really a blessing it
should not be withheld from the good and lavished only on the unworthy. We
should all take great comfort in knowing that whippings are helpful and we
should no longer be guilty of calling a benefit a punishment. What is to
become of the boys and girls who "behave themselves," who attend to
their studies, and comply with the rules? They lose the benefits conferred on
those who defy their parents and teachers, they reach maturity without
character, and so remain withered and worthless.
You were spanked and you are "not ashamed to admit it.... I am a better
person for it." That's my point. Let's not withhold from anyone
the chance for a good whipping. They will be a better person for it.
This also is making me really wonder. When the children are young
and weak, the parents and teachers who are strong whip the children in order
that they may be respectful and disciplined - better people. Now, when the
children grow up and get strong and the parents are old and weak, shouldn't the
children beat them, so that they too may continue to be respectful and
disciplined?
"Spare the rod, spoil the child, sir. Best phrase in history."
Yes, Samuel Bulter was a good poet.
Love is a boy by poets styl¹d;
Then spare the rod and spoil the child.
Hudibras. Part
ii. Canto i. Line 843.
That was who you were
quoting, I assume. Some often think that the phrase came from the bible, but not
so. Butler had a quote for those who might use biblical verse to
support certain ideas. It was right up the alley of this discussion:
And prove their doctrine
orthodox,
By apostolic blows and knocks.
Hudibras.
Part ii. Canto i. Line 199.
But perhaps it was the biblical verse from the book of Proverbs in the King
James Version of the Bible. They were written by King Solomon, and presumably
reflect his parenting beliefs with respect to his son Rehoboam:
Prov
13:24: "He that spareth his
rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes (diligently)."
The
problem with this is that Rehoboam, the one for whom the rod was not spared,
became a tyrant and had to escape his kingdom before being assassinated.
He had been asked to help his people by becoming kinder, unlike his
father, and his older counsel had advised just such a plan. However,
Rehoboam "forsook the counsel which the old men gave him, and took
counsel with the young men that were brought up with him, that stood before
him." So, presumably, all the young counsel, raised by loving parents
who gave out a couple of "good old fashion whippings", appear to have
become just what you, I assume, would not want them to become - mean, vindictive
people.
Mr. Williams is a very bright and interesting man. His solution to the
problem of children bringing guns to school is easy:
"Youngsters could be
stopped very easily from bringing weapons to school.
You say: "How, Williams? What makes you smarter than the experts who
haven't figured it out?" Here's my prediction: If the punishment for the
first offense of bringing a weapon to school was five lashes on the butt with a
cane, and the punishment was carried live on the six o'clock news, there'd be an
end of weapons being brought to schools.
Children, especially boys, are born barbarians. We as parents and teachers have
a mere 18 years to civilize them before foisting them off on the rest of
society, and we're not doing the best job that we can."
Now why didn't we think of that? Five
lashes on the butt carried live at 6, and all our problems are solved.
I hope to hear more evidence from you, but I am beginning to lean your way.
I know a few adults who could use a "good old fashion beating"
and I know there are a few who think I could use one too.
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